Curse

lasteele · Jan 02, 2006, 09:32 PM // 21:32

I have tried all of from sword,axe to hammer.Nothing beats watching your opponent keep picking himself up off the ground as you beat him into oblivion.As for the whole dying out thing far from it.The dye hards still carry their hammers with pride i know i do.Swords and axes are a trend for now,and like all trends they come and go.

Lambentviper · Jan 02, 2006, 09:33 PM // 21:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by kvndoom

(in essence a hammer is a tool, not a weapon, and has to be treated as such)

A hammer is a tool, not a weapon, i agree with that.
But a warhammer is a weapon, not a tool.

Tuche.

Unfortunatly, the swarm of cliche Gale KD builds have undermined the Hammer Warrios role. Now players can KD an opponent without such a high adrenaline cost and can even do it with a sheild.

But the reliability of the axe's damage output is sub-par.
6-28 damage. Thats a big gap where someone could get off a heal or rez because you happened to hit weaker.

But when i run my hammer warrior i bring strong damage skills that keep my opponent on the ground, unable to use his skills.

Its as easy as Devastating hammer{E} Crushing blow(for the deep wound) Mighty blow, Heavy blow, Aftershock, and sometimes stoning for another kd and more damage.

No axe or sword warrior can accomplish this with as much finesse.

I know, because ive tested it.

LouAl · Jan 02, 2006, 09:44 PM // 21:44

I have been using my W/Me interupter build for a while now. It dominates against monsters and also against other players in CA. The basic premise is to use Dwarven battle stance (which gets you about 12 seconds worth of interupting their every move) and a few mesmer interupts (like leech) and attacks like mighty/irresistable while the interupts are charging.

I hitting for big numbers on the attacks (100+ dmg) and then going right into an unstoppable interupting rampage, then right back into heavy attacks...nothing survives very long without someone else healing them.

I have been on many teams where after a fight the mesmer primaries are saying "who the @#$% pulled off all those interupts!? that was @#$%ing amazing!"

I tried both swords and axes awhile back but stuff just didn't die fast enough. I spent most of my time healing myself and not fighting.

BUT against a massive horde of monsters or ppl the hammer has nothing

better to keep the fight down to less than 5 enemies

sh4ft3d · Jan 02, 2006, 11:00 PM // 23:00

Axes are mostly popular die to everyone's least favorite image of a Paladin weilding his gladius after casting mending on himself. Farming builds especially revolve around the axe, due to Cyclone Axe's uber pwnedness. Hammers need the option of a higher defensive grip (such as 'armor +10), OR (even better) a onehanded hammer with slightly reduced damage. That would rock. Knock down with a shield on.

Thailii Monkey · Jan 03, 2006, 03:04 AM // 03:04

The Biggest Problem with hammers i find is adrenaline, attack slower and the decent attacks cost a bucket load and some are lose all adrenaline,
axe is faster lower adrenaline, and you can sometimes hit higher than hammers.

Lambentviper · Jan 03, 2006, 03:10 AM // 03:10

for great justice! FTW! your adrenal problems should be fixed for the most part.

but the attack that lose all adrenaline are usually only used at the end of a skill combo. Heavy blow is the only 1 of my hammer attacks that lose all adrenaline. you can do about 1 full health bar with my set up a few posts above.

hammer skills require thinking and exploiting.

Senator Tom · Jan 03, 2006, 04:10 AM // 04:10

hammers are elite guys what are you thinking?

LouAl · Jan 03, 2006, 11:52 PM // 23:52

adrenaline is not an issue if you put a dwarven battle stance in the fight. you can't use other skills or it ends, so you end up with all your adrenal skills charged as soon as it is done (or before).

it is just like any of the energy dependent professions, you have to manage your adrenaline

Griff Mon · Jan 04, 2006, 12:46 AM // 00:46

I use my hammer with impunity. Between KD/AS, Armour of Earth, Endure Pain and Bonnetti's Defense you can stand there all day and have almost anything pound on you. It works great for swarms of melee. They can't hurt you and you beat on them, then unleash KD/AS. Worried about energy?, Bonnetti's recharges you fully in about a second as long as you are getting beat on. Then wait for the adreniline to come back and wham KD/AS.

It also helps to have those hammer gauntlets that keep a knocked down opponet down for an extra second. I use this as a meat shield for my squishies on Farming Runs and go solo in heavy melee areas. At higher levels you need someone backing you up with healing but it still works darn good.

nunix · Jan 04, 2006, 03:40 AM // 03:40

So here's a thing: I see a lot of Hammer/Earth Magic combinations around. What OTHER profession/skill pairings are there? Obviously you can always slap on /Mo or /N or something, but I'm curious as whether or not there's more out there to accent Hammer as well as the EM knockdown stuff.

LouAl · Jan 04, 2006, 04:46 AM // 04:46

I stand firm that the W/Me interupter is one of the most fun combos to play (not to metion devastating when ppl are expecting KD's or using the mesmer skills as support only). It is so much fun that I often play it instead of my hardcore interupting Me/E

lasteele · Jan 04, 2006, 04:48 AM // 04:48

The monk smiting abilities gives good knock down skills wihich i prefer i like the ele knockdown but the healing is better any day.

The First Attacker · Jan 04, 2006, 06:48 PM // 18:48

Hammers are too slow for what they are worth. Having a hammer means weaker defense and not that good skills. I think one in a guild is a good idea for knocking down though...

Raptox · Jan 04, 2006, 08:19 PM // 20:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by The First Attacker

Hammers are too slow for what they are worth. Having a hammer means weaker defense and not that good skills. I think one in a guild is a good idea for knocking down though...

Balance is essential anyway. When I run my Hammer, my guildmate runs Axe.

Here's my story: I switched to Hammer at THK, kept the annoying bosses on the ground until they died, and never looked back.

Oh, right, then there was that time I bought the Bludgeoner for 3k. How much is that Razorstone going for these days?

Lambentviper · Jan 04, 2006, 08:59 PM // 20:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by The First Attacker

Hammers are too slow for what they are worth. Having a hammer means weaker defense and not that good skills. I think one in a guild is a good idea for knocking down though...

Well then my hammer warrior would like to meet your little sword or axe buddy.

Hammer/Smite is also good because you can keep them knocked down while you have Balthazars Aura and Symbol of Wrath on. Constanst damage from 2 sources that they cant get away from. The major monk owner<----

LouAl · Jan 04, 2006, 11:29 PM // 23:29

too slow? not good enough?

hammer speed is what? 1.75 sec per hit?
axe speed is 1.33 sec per hit?

so that means the
hammer does between 10.8 and 20 dmg per second
axe does between 4.5 and 21.1 dmg per second
and for comparisson
sword does between 11.3 and 16.5 dmg per second

what this tells me is that swords are basically worthless (without using a skill). The min dmg is about the same as minimum on a hammer and the max isn't anywhere near the max for hammer or axe, but the damage will be in a smaller range more consistently.

I like the high max damage numbers and I like to see a small range in order to more consistently do large damage per second. The hammer and axe have approximately the same top end but the minimum dmg of an axe is half that of a hammer, so WITHOUT using skills the axe is an inferior choice.

On the subject of skills. Hammer and axe BOTH have some great skill sets, but I find that even without using KD's I kill enemies faster with the hammer simply because the damage is higher, more often (due to the smaller span of per second dmg).

Also, I find that using KD's and interupts keep the enemies from attacking me and through that I have higher health and find myself healing myself less.

Summary:
for one-three opponents
Axe = inconsistently high damage with longer fighting times and more healing
Hammer = consistently high damage with shorter fighting times and less healing
for more than three opponents
Axe = better large group attack skills able to take down many enemies simultaneous
Hammer = few decent group attack skills better to not fight large groups

overall
Axe is better for farming (hence the popularity)
Hammer is better for strategic play of smaller groups (many people don't like to have to think so hard...hence the unpopularity)

disclaimer:
my opinion only, many people fight well with both and in a wide variety of styles and areas, and agianst a variety of number of opponents

feel free to recheck math and correct if neccessary

Himura the Warrior · Jan 04, 2006, 11:31 PM // 23:31

I'm a hammer warrior. I can kill a monk pretty fast with my KD/AS build. Forget a shield, just use endure pain when ur near death and if u have a smart monk, he/she will catch on and heal u if they can. I never do see many hammer warriors, but find a good one and they're devastating.

Fire Childe · Jan 05, 2006, 12:11 AM // 00:11

Quote:

Axe is better for farming (hence the popularity)
Hammer is better for strategic play of smaller groups (many people don't like to have to think so hard...hence the unpopularity)

i do not see how you can arrive at this conclusion. that one is absolutely better than the other for these purposes.

one point that i think is understated in this thread is that many observations on hammer and axe builds assume that the warrior is in isolation. i.e. that the rest of the possible 7 other players on your team do not affect the viability of either hammer/axe/sword warriors in a fight.

mass knockdown/aftershock warriors are more viable in teams with earth eles running earthquake and aftershock. or other variants on knocking down and scoring free damage because of it. but this requires good timing and coordination. if pulled off right, the area of effect damage is brutal and it is not something you can pull off with any other weapon mastery. but the effectiveness of this type of build is limited to the coordination of the team that is running it, and the teambuild of the opponents they are facing.

very specific, single target knockdowns are more useful for a team that is built to spike large amounts of damage on a single target, which is still fairly popular. you dont really get anywhere these days in tombs or gvg or even in some high level pve areas if you cannot coordinate spike damage properly. hence the popularity of devastating hammer (without inflicting any additional damage itself) and the continuing use of hammer bash in pvp (and even pve, despite the fact that it breaks combos).

this thread also seems to assume that using 1 weapon mastery necessarily restricts them to using only skills from that mastery. when in fact you could just as easily run any standard tombs axe build and switch to hammer for a hammer bash whenever you want a surprise knockdown. without having to spend a single point in hammer mastery. there is nothing stopping a hammer warrior from switching to a sword to slap bleeding on a target after comboing them to near death.

it is also difficult to make flat out judgement calls on the viability of any weapon mastery without factoring in the entire spectrum of skill combinations that the rest of your teammates will use in order to augment what you are doing.

you cannot simply consider the viability of warrior builds without taking into consideration its place within an appropriate teambuild.

perhaps this is a cynical point to end on, but one possible explanation for the popularity of axes in both pvp and pve is the number of cookie cutter axe farming builds posted on sites like this as well as very similar looking teambuilds that use warriors for damage + shock or pets + IWAY.

these builds are easy to clone and dont really require a whole lot of thought. thats why so many people use them. im sure if the next fad of the month rolls around to teams with all warrior or ele secondaries running ridiculous amounts of knockdowns and the coordination to capitalise on them, from Shield of Judgement down to multiple shocks and several warriors with multiple, mass knockdowns a peice, hammers will suddenly come back in fashion.

all it takes is a good team to show you can consistantly take the hall of heroes with it. give it 2 weeks and everyone and their dog will be using it.

LouAl · Jan 05, 2006, 03:07 AM // 03:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fire Childe

i do not see how you can arrive at this conclusion. that one is absolutely better than the other for these purposes.

I wasn't meaning to say that one is always or absolutely better, only that it can be easier to do certain things with a certain type of weapon. For example, it is easier to kill multiple targets simultaneously with an axe than with a hammer, but it is easier to keep one target on the ground and interupted with a hammer. It is not an absolute, just easier.

Again, this is all my opinion...that doesn't make it true for everyone. Just me.